We could for example compare the misdeeds of King Saul and King David, and according to our own minds might easily determine that David was as bad or worse than Saul. But, Saul was rejected and David was forgiven. Were David's adultery and murder were less serious than Saul's disobedience?
God looked at the heart of each man and rendered a fair judgment. Saul was no longer fit to be king and David was forgiven. Without understanding their hearts a fair judgment could not be made. Was not Judah, the 4th son of Jacob by Leah a leading betrayer of his younger half-brother, Joseph? Was not the purpose of the brothers, including Judah, that Joseph should die? Joseph was saved from death but it was certainly not because of the mercy or repentance of Judah.
Yet, many years later in Egypt, we find that it is the same Judah with a new heart who offers himself as a surety to the safety of Joseph's younger brother, Benjamin. Judah has turned over a new leaf repented of his old ways and has been accepted of God. From the loins of Judah would come the Messiah. If after God accepted our first repentance from sin , we then denied Him before men would that not be a betrayal of the trust the Lord placed in us?
RJ said:. I just don't get it! To accept his repentance, I suppose you mean they were born again and saved, meaning Jesus resides spiritually in them. With God in you and he promises to never leave you and Jesus promises to never lose you, how exactly is it that you deny him? Yes, God looks into the heart and makes his determination by whether Jesus is in you or not.
Once in there it is God's decision not ours! The promises are good, RJ, but the "old man" of us can still turn our back. We still have the authority that God gave us. This is where our beliefs differ. Dear Br. Bear I see Peter's denial not as him being ashamed, but rather afraid.
He fought against it which is evident by the fact that he was still hanging around while the other disciples fled. I'm sure he did not desire to be recognized, but hoped to go unnoticed so he could see what was going to happen to Jesus his Master.
It was still not allowed at that moment for him to know in total or I would want to believe he and the others might have reacted differently than they did. Not till later was his and the others understanding opened up.
Luke So in a way he was at this time flying blind. When still in fear which is evident by the reaction of the disciples in running away and deserting Jesus. So when confronted as one who was a disciple of Jesus, Peter of cause reacted in a way that most people would. Not in "shame" of Jesus, but of "self preservation" which is instinctive to man. Later of cause it turned to "shame", but not at Jesus but at himself! Only with supreme effort is it overcome.
So telling a lie to protect oneself was within the scope of human behavior without the Holy Spirit for Peter. There must be a rational reason for one to give of oneself for another Military training is another, but that's another story. John The believer in Christ Jesus has this love in them and so my hope is that we are more motivated to act upon it. Sorry, I digress with the following side note. Anyway, Peter one can almost say, has a reconciliation later when after the resurrection Jesus ask Peter three times "Do you love me The same number of times of his denials!
So in conclusion for me it seems that Peter in his denials was not motivated because of having some "shame of Jesus" which is condemning by scripture which has been noted, but out of fear and "lied" to in order to save himself.
We also know he was bitterly ashamed for the weakness he showed which goes in line with the sinful nature of man. We can also conclude that Jesus forgave him as he forgives us for many of things we have done before and after being drawn to Him so that we might be saved.
Can't thank Him enough for that and so much more!!! Sorry for the length, but scripture does seem to envelop me and at times to the point of being overwhelmed in the depth one finds until it is opened to us through the Holy Spirit! The only way I can sometimes describe it is by saying "WOW"! Awesome thread movement! With the Love of Jesus Christ my brother! There is only one unforgivable sin, blaspheming of the Holy Spirit.
Perhaps something along that line happened with Judas. The bible is not a complete exhaustive history of the Christian faith, and a how to act and think for all things. When we don't do that, if we refuse the leading of the Holy Spirit continually, we "will" suffer, plain and simple. Brad Huber said:. I wonder if there is a difference between conviction and condemnation. It's OK to feel a little guilt, but not OK to punish yourself even kill yourself. Matt ; Then he began to curse and swear, "I do not know the man!
Matt ; And Peter remembered the word which Jesus had said , "Before a rooster crows, you will deny Me three times. God and Jesus tell only the truth. No, your not the Old Man, you are born a new!
With in mind of what God and Jesus say, I just don't see how one escapes their promise. You just keep striving to do what ever it is what you do, God bless you in that effort. You always refer to the fact that God gets all the glory.
It is not a negotiate or percentage proposition, it is all of his grace or it is none of it. But , like you said, we differ on this; hopefully we reach the same goal! B-A-C said:. Christ4Ever said:. Correct, but neither Peter or Judas had been given that complete indwelling of the Holy Spirit as yet. Our Lord had not yet ascended. And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matthew Looking to the OLd Testament: And it came to pass afterward, that he Samson loved a woman in the valley of Sorek, whose name was Delilah.
Judges All that hate me whisper together against me: against me do they devise my hurt. Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me. And David went out to meet them, and answered and said unto them, If ye be come peaceably unto me to help me, mine heart shall be knit unto you: but if ye be come to betray me to mine enemies, seeing there is no wrong in mine hands, the God of our fathers look thereon , and rebuke it.
Proverbs and And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD. And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel. Zechariah Bless you It is interesting that it was not just Peter who said he would never forsake or deny Jesus, it was all of Jesus's disciples who said the same thing. Yet they all ran off out of fear for their lives. Peter just happens to be center stage in his denial. Mat Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended.
Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cockrel crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee.
Likewise also said all the disciples. You must log in or register to reply here. Similar threads. Bible Discussions. Brotherly Betrayal Started by rizen1 Sep 28, Replies: 0.
When you run into a Betrayer of the Word — walk away fast and warn your brothers and sisters in Christ. You are commenting using your WordPress. You are commenting using your Google account. You are commenting using your Twitter account. You are commenting using your Facebook account. Notify me of new comments via email. Notify me of new posts via email.
Email Address:. Steps Down The Road. Skip to content. Denial and Betrayal — is there a difference? Posted on February 18, by Tony Kiar. Hold fast! Like this: Like Loading Taught highschool math, computer science and physics for many years. Became a high school principal. You are commenting using your WordPress.
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